From helen at creative-catalyst.com Tue Dec 1 13:49:33 2015 From: helen at creative-catalyst.com (helen varley jamieson) Date: Tue Dec 1 13:49:43 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] bandwidth In-Reply-To: <13796518-9B06-4265-9D88-CC4D7A21FA5B@ucalgary.ca> References: <13796518-9B06-4265-9D88-CC4D7A21FA5B@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <565E07DD.4040204@creative-catalyst.com> hi ken (& list), yes indeed, audience accessibility has always been very important for us with UpStage; for a long time we had artists & audiences who were on dial-up & had no possibility to get broadband where they lived - & now we get people on unstable mobile networks, which is another story. & our streaming is also at the low end of things; we have just had a show that had 4 webcams streaming together through UpStage, & we did (as always) have some issues with lag but apart from that it functioned pretty well. not HD, nor stereo uncompressed audio, but creative communication :) helen : ) On 1/12/15 1:18 48AM, Kenneth Fields wrote: > Hi Helen, > The extra headroom of university grade networks (1gig) mostly helps > with multiple HD video streams. Stereo uncompressed audio can > be done on less than 10M (up and down) with one or two people. > > However, I assume your feeling of being bandwidth challenged is > not just about paying for a premium bandwidth package yourself, > but that your practice is based around audience participation > and the low-data server based platform you guys developed - > as well as the aesthetic that emerged as a consequence. > > We all have different situations. CERNET2 in China (china edu research > network) is ipv6 only. I?m ?stuck' on next generation networks without > much of a real internet (blocked). So my practice is heavily P2P > with whoever can negotiate IPV6 upgrades with their IT depts. > > Anyway, we?re probably just around the corner from ubiquitous > ipv6 1 gig bandwidth for everyone - thanks to google fibre pushing > the competition. Then in the future, we can all get nostalgic remembering > how we could possibly have survived in the good old days with only 1 > pitiful > gig of bandwidth - when data crawled along at a speed significantly > slower than the speed of light. > > Ken > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-L > To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > E-mail: stremes-L@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -- helen varley jamieson helen@creative-catalyst.com http://www.creative-catalyst.com http://www.upstage.org.nz /Unaussprechnbarlich/, M?nchen, November-Dezember 2015 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151201/880677c2/attachment.html From rpacker at zakros.com Wed Dec 2 06:56:26 2015 From: rpacker at zakros.com (Randall Packer) Date: Wed Dec 2 06:56:40 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] bandwidth In-Reply-To: <565E07DD.4040204@creative-catalyst.com> References: <13796518-9B06-4265-9D88-CC4D7A21FA5B@ucalgary.ca> <565E07DD.4040204@creative-catalyst.com> Message-ID: <55A06BE5-C927-4B19-B317-0CE7391CF751@zakros.com> Hi Helen and Ken, Great to have a list to focus in on the complexities and challenges of online performance. Big thanks to Ken for setting this up!! Regarding bandwidth, I learned a lot in my recent discussions with Furtherfield regarding the idea of ?social broadcasting.? Although our TV project is on hold for now (lack of funds), we explored how a community of artist-broadcasters can collaborate despite varying Internet access and technical capabilities. In other words, how can someone with nothing more than a cell phone on a cellular network, or an IP phone, or a laptop with basic wireless coordinate with someone like Ken who uses IPV6 on a university network. I have been exploring cloud-based solutions such as Wowza, which will accept any type of transmission and transcode it for distribution/broadcast to the networked audience. It?s all still theoretical as I haven?t yet begun working with their service, but I did have my students create a broadcast channel this past semester and we were able to use Skype, Periscope.tv, and cellular broadcasting and aggregate the transmissions using Wirecast, which is effective in rebroadcasting out to the Internet. Achieving the flexibility of artists able to collaboratively network and broadcast within their constraints is an interesting and I think important challenge in opening up live networked performance to a wide range of artists and audiences. Best, Randall From: on behalf of helen varley jamieson Reply-To: Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 at 3:49 PM To: Subject: Re: [Stremes-l] bandwidth hi ken (& list), yes indeed, audience accessibility has always been very important for us with UpStage; for a long time we had artists & audiences who were on dial-up & had no possibility to get broadband where they lived - & now we get people on unstable mobile networks, which is another story. & our streaming is also at the low end of things; we have just had a show that had 4 webcams streaming together through UpStage, & we did (as always) have some issues with lag but apart from that it functioned pretty well. not HD, nor stereo uncompressed audio, but creative communication :) helen : ) On 1/12/15 1:18 48AM, Kenneth Fields wrote: Hi Helen, The extra headroom of university grade networks (1gig) mostly helps with multiple HD video streams. Stereo uncompressed audio can be done on less than 10M (up and down) with one or two people. However, I assume your feeling of being bandwidth challenged is not just about paying for a premium bandwidth package yourself, but that your practice is based around audience participation and the low-data server based platform you guys developed - as well as the aesthetic that emerged as a consequence. We all have different situations. CERNET2 in China (china edu research network) is ipv6 only. I?m ?stuck' on next generation networks without much of a real internet (blocked). So my practice is heavily P2P with whoever can negotiate IPV6 upgrades with their IT depts. Anyway, we?re probably just around the corner from ubiquitous ipv6 1 gig bandwidth for everyone - thanks to google fibre pushing the competition. Then in the future, we can all get nostalgic remembering how we could possibly have survived in the good old days with only 1 pitiful gig of bandwidth - when data crawled along at a speed significantly slower than the speed of light. Ken _______________________________________________ This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-L To unsubscribe, see instructions at: http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman E-mail: stremes-L@mailman.ucalgary.ca Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -- helen varley jamieson helen@creative-catalyst.com http://www.creative-catalyst.com http://www.upstage.org.nz Unaussprechnbarlich, M?nchen, November-Dezember 2015 _______________________________________________ This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-L To unsubscribe, see instructions at: http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman E-mail: stremes-L@mailman.ucalgary.ca Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151202/3d8158ea/attachment.html From kfields at ucalgary.ca Wed Dec 2 19:30:48 2015 From: kfields at ucalgary.ca (Kenneth Fields) Date: Wed Dec 2 19:31:08 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming Message-ID: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities of network music. We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing simply and looking for emerging genre in this. The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. Hmm, must be time. Ken From mlantin at ecuad.ca Thu Dec 3 12:11:14 2015 From: mlantin at ecuad.ca (Maria Lantin) Date: Thu Dec 3 12:11:17 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> References: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <45354974-E458-49C7-B160-8286AC970F60@ecuad.ca> That sounds like a lot of fun! Some great insights coming from play. Here at Emily Carr we?ve been playing around with VR and have formed a Consortium for Future Reality (c4fr) to work on networked and embodied VR experiences. Right now the main collaborations are between NYU (Ken Perlin?s lab) and Emily Carr, but soon USC (Mark Bolas), and the Max Planck Institute will be joining in the fun. We are using GearVRs, and VIVEs. Obviously the kinds of latency issues that you are encountering with sound are of great interest. > On Dec 2, 2015, at 9:30 PM, Kenneth Fields wrote: > > I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary > yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities > of network music. > > We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. > There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. > however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, > we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since > a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. > > Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular > beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing > two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively > speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. > > We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. > So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic > mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, > it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing > simply and looking for emerging genre in this. > > The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. > No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. > When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. > Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. > > We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point > for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, > developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? > starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! > > And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. > > AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. > > Hmm, must be time. > Ken > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l > To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -- Dr. Maria Lantin Director, Stereoscopic 3D Centre | tel 604 630 4540 fax 866 731 3780 cel 604 722 3749 emily carr university of art + design | 1399 Johnston Street, Vancouver BC V6H 3R9 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151203/cad67c9f/attachment.html From roger at eartrumpet.org Thu Dec 3 15:42:55 2015 From: roger at eartrumpet.org (Roger Mills) Date: Thu Dec 3 15:43:06 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Re: Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: <20151203160053.6D5684558@mailman.ucalgary.ca> References: <20151203160053.6D5684558@mailman.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <3D608304-3BE1-479F-8485-2FF3A36124BC@eartrumpet.org> Sounds like an interesting session Ken. Did you record it ? Ethernet Orchestra often get together for a play, ?simply' for our own enjoyment or sometimes with the purpose of recording but it is definitely liberating ! For me, it?s one of the most enjoyable things about improvisation in that you can just connect with others and share these moments of creativity and learn new things. I?m also reminded of the early days of free improvisation whereby people like Derek Bailey and Evan Parker et al. used to get together in the backroom of a London pub and just play. It was often noted that there were more musicians than audience members ! While i I haven?t done a networked session with that amount of latency for a while, it does require different approaches and can yield some interesting results ! As the man himself once said "Improvisation is a basic instinct, an essential force in sustaining life. Without it nothing survives" 1(Bailey 1992) Let?s start posting audio here too ! Bests Roger > On 4 Dec 2015, at 3:00 am, stremes-l-request@mailman.ucalgary.ca wrote: > > Send stremes-l mailing list submissions to > stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > stremes-l-request@mailman.ucalgary.ca > > You can reach the person managing the list at > stremes-l-owner@mailman.ucalgary.ca > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of stremes-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Simply Jamming (Kenneth Fields) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:30:48 +0800 > From: Kenneth Fields > Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming > To: stremes-L@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Message-ID: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary > yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities > of network music. > > We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. > There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. > however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, > we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since > a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. > > Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular > beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing > two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively > speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. > > We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. > So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic > mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, > it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing > simply and looking for emerging genre in this. > > The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. > No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. > When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. > Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. > > We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point > for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, > developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? > starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! > > And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. > > AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. > > Hmm, must be time. > Ken > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l > To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l > > > End of stremes-l Digest, Vol 17, Issue 3 > **************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/6018e540/attachment.html From rpacker at zakros.com Thu Dec 3 15:46:57 2015 From: rpacker at zakros.com (Randall Packer) Date: Thu Dec 3 15:47:06 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> References: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: Ken, I love the idea of the network as a free and open and immediate space for musical improvisation. Of course I would say that the fluidity and creativity of your musical experience is possible because you have spent years refining the system, developing the techniques, and you clearly have solid collaborators. So bravo for making the network a quality social and artistic space for you and your colleagues. I am interested in knowing who else is on this list, and perhaps everyone can introduce themselves, and their ideas regarding networked performance. I suspect that everyone has a very different approach, objectives, and artistic rationale for engaging in performance in the networked third space. It would be fascinating to know how and why artists are reaching beyond the physical parameters of their local artistic and social space to create new work and experiences that dissolve geographical boundaries as well as engage new audiences. Best, Randall On 12/2/15, 9:30 PM, "Kenneth Fields" wrote: >I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary >yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities >of network music. > >We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. >There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. >however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, >we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since >a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. > >Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular >beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing >two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively >speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. > >We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. >So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic >mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, >it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing >simply and looking for emerging genre in this. > >The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. >No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. >When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. >Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. > >We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point >for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, >developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? >starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! > >And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. > >AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. > >Hmm, must be time. >Ken > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l >To unsubscribe, see instructions at: >http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > >E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca >Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l From kfields at ucalgary.ca Thu Dec 3 17:30:25 2015 From: kfields at ucalgary.ca (Kenneth Fields) Date: Thu Dec 3 17:30:39 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Jacktrip Course Message-ID: <41683A6C-74C3-4A30-95ED-DAFC4C6484CB@ucalgary.ca> Great course on Jacktrip. (Kadenze.com). The third session of the course was just posted today. Thanks Chris! https://www.kadenze.com/courses/online-jamming-and-concert-technology/info This is a absolutely must do for all network musicians/artists/performers (period). There are a couple of subscription options/commitment-level for the course. Even if you?re a seasoned player, it?s a good confirmation of your normal practice, and you still might learn a couple of things. I did; there?s a bit on the history of jacktrip. Artsmesh is a front end Mac application for all this now, but it?s still good to know how to work with Jack audio and jacktrip from the terminal - if you get in a bind. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/fa783f56/attachment.html From kfields at ucalgary.ca Thu Dec 3 19:15:07 2015 From: kfields at ucalgary.ca (Kenneth Fields) Date: Thu Dec 3 19:15:51 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: <3D608304-3BE1-479F-8485-2FF3A36124BC@eartrumpet.org> References: <20151203160053.6D5684558@mailman.ucalgary.ca> <3D608304-3BE1-479F-8485-2FF3A36124BC@eartrumpet.org> Message-ID: <1B37962E-DE4C-4125-92BF-0152976413CA@ucalgary.ca> Yes, post ?links? (youtube, soundcloud, etc) of audio/video; attachments probably won?t work here. Syneme has a youtube channel. We did record, but I?m just getting used to my guitar again after 20 years - so I?ll spare you. Ethan on the other hand is an awesome, seasoned drummer. I wonder if network performance is bringing other computer musicians/artists back into the realm of tangible instruments in the exploration of ?liveness.' The network medium seems to encourage this, I think because it is a ?medium of milliseconds.? So one really wants to work in a ?first order? mode of consciousness, through body/touch. We know the computer tended to bring together practices, instrument playing (sync) and composition (async). We started to play our computer compositions in halls and to regard the ?press play? action as the playing of an instrument. Then there?s composing live, improvisation; but with the caveat of necessarily exploring ?relativity? first hand - not the theory of. Anyway, live performance with electronic instruments is a nicely problematic area with many good treatises by now (Emmerson, Shusterman, Croft, Auslander, etc). There?s the Contemporary Music Review issues: LIveEM Vol. 18, 1999; Improvisation, Vol 25, 2006. Ken > On Dec 4, 2015, at 6:42 AM, Roger Mills wrote: > > Sounds like an interesting session Ken. Did you record it ? > > Ethernet Orchestra often get together for a play, ?simply' for our own enjoyment or sometimes with the purpose of recording but it is definitely liberating ! > > For me, it?s one of the most enjoyable things about improvisation in that you can just connect with others and share these moments of creativity and learn new things. > > I?m also reminded of the early days of free improvisation whereby people like Derek Bailey and Evan Parker et al. used to get together in the backroom of a London pub and just play. It was often noted that there were more musicians than audience members ! > > While i I haven?t done a networked session with that amount of latency for a while, it does require different approaches and can yield some interesting results ! > > As the man himself once said "Improvisation is a basic instinct, an essential force in sustaining life. Without it nothing survives" 1(Bailey 1992) > > Let?s start posting audio here too ! > > Bests > > Roger > > >> On 4 Dec 2015, at 3:00 am, stremes-l-request@mailman.ucalgary.ca wrote: >> >> Send stremes-l mailing list submissions to >> stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> stremes-l-request@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> stremes-l-owner@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of stremes-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Simply Jamming (Kenneth Fields) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:30:48 +0800 >> From: Kenneth Fields >> Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming >> To: stremes-L@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> Message-ID: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary >> yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities >> of network music. >> >> We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. >> There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. >> however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, >> we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since >> a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. >> >> Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular >> beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing >> two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively >> speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. >> >> We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. >> So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic >> mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, >> it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing >> simply and looking for emerging genre in this. >> >> The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. >> No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. >> When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. >> Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. >> >> We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point >> for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, >> developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? >> starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! >> >> And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. >> >> AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. >> >> Hmm, must be time. >> Ken >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l >> To unsubscribe, see instructions at: >> http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman >> >> E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l >> >> >> End of stremes-l Digest, Vol 17, Issue 3 >> **************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l > To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/f5a741a2/attachment.html From ecayko at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 18:29:13 2015 From: ecayko at gmail.com (Ethan Cayko) Date: Thu Dec 3 19:19:01 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: References: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TrunksandPipes_3 NodesWeb.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3664582 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/97362904/TrunksandPipes_3NodesWeb-0001.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TrunksAndPipesWeb.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1861831 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/97362904/TrunksAndPipesWeb-0001.jpg From kfields at ucalgary.ca Thu Dec 3 19:50:05 2015 From: kfields at ucalgary.ca (Kenneth Fields) Date: Thu Dec 3 19:50:24 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: <45354974-E458-49C7-B160-8286AC970F60@ecuad.ca> References: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> <45354974-E458-49C7-B160-8286AC970F60@ecuad.ca> Message-ID: Hi Maria, Remembering one of our first telematic performances with Emily Carr, 2009: http://syneme.ucalgary.ca/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=CemcTelemusic2009 MUSICACOUSTICA 2009: A Telemusic Concert. October 27th, 10am (Beijing): October 26th, (Calgary 8pm, Vancouver 7pm) 2009. Locations: China's Central Conservatory of Music University of Calgary, Syneme Lab Emily Carr University Art Design, Intersection Digital Studio's Motion Capture Studio Ken > On Dec 4, 2015, at 3:11 AM, Maria Lantin wrote: > > That sounds like a lot of fun! Some great insights coming from play. Here at Emily Carr we?ve been playing around with VR and have formed a Consortium for Future Reality (c4fr) to work on networked and embodied VR experiences. Right now the main collaborations are between NYU (Ken Perlin?s lab) and Emily Carr, but soon USC (Mark Bolas), and the Max Planck Institute will be joining in the fun. We are using GearVRs, and VIVEs. Obviously the kinds of latency issues that you are encountering with sound are of great interest. > >> On Dec 2, 2015, at 9:30 PM, Kenneth Fields > wrote: >> >> I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary >> yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities >> of network music. >> >> We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. >> There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. >> however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, >> we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since >> a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. >> >> Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular >> beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing >> two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively >> speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. >> >> We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. >> So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic >> mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, >> it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing >> simply and looking for emerging genre in this. >> >> The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. >> No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. >> When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. >> Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. >> >> We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point >> for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, >> developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? >> starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! >> >> And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. >> >> AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. >> >> Hmm, must be time. >> Ken >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l >> To unsubscribe, see instructions at: >> http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman >> >> E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l > > -- > Dr. Maria Lantin Director, Stereoscopic 3D Centre | tel 604 630 4540 fax 866 731 3780 cel 604 722 3749 > emily carr university of art + design | 1399 Johnston Street, Vancouver BC V6H 3R9 > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l > To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/6e73cfec/attachment.html From kfields at ucalgary.ca Thu Dec 3 22:32:14 2015 From: kfields at ucalgary.ca (Kenneth Fields) Date: Thu Dec 3 22:32:31 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Introductions In-Reply-To: References: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: Thanks Randall (former secretary of the U.S. dept of art and technology), http://www.randallpacker.com/who-am-i/ Randall and I are starting a collaborative project between Singapore/Beijing/Arizona State Univ. Ken My contact: Kenneth Fields, Ph.D. Professor Computer Music CEMC - China Electronic Music Center Central Conservatory of Music 43 BaoJia Street Beijing 100031 China, Email: ken@ccom.edu.cn http://syneme.ccom.edu.cn > On Dec 4, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Randall Packer wrote: > > Ken, I love the idea of the network as a free and open and immediate space for musical improvisation. Of course I would say that the fluidity and creativity of your musical experience is possible because you have spent years refining the system, developing the techniques, and you clearly have solid collaborators. So bravo for making the network a quality social and artistic space for you and your colleagues. > > > > I am interested in knowing who else is on this list, and perhaps everyone can introduce themselves, and their ideas regarding networked performance. I suspect that everyone has a very different approach, objectives, and artistic rationale for engaging in performance in the networked third space. It would be fascinating to know how and why artists are reaching beyond the physical parameters of their local artistic and social space to create new work and experiences that dissolve geographical boundaries as well as engage new audiences. > > Best, Randall > > On 12/2/15, 9:30 PM, "Kenneth Fields" wrote: > >> I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary >> yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities >> of network music. >> >> We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. >> There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. >> however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, >> we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since >> a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. >> >> Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular >> beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing >> two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively >> speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. >> >> We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. >> So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic >> mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, >> it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing >> simply and looking for emerging genre in this. >> >> The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. >> No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. >> When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. >> Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. >> >> We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point >> for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, >> developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? >> starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! >> >> And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. >> >> AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. >> >> Hmm, must be time. >> Ken >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l >> To unsubscribe, see instructions at: >> http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman >> >> E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/2d393190/attachment.html From kfields at ucalgary.ca Thu Dec 3 23:07:02 2015 From: kfields at ucalgary.ca (Kenneth Fields) Date: Thu Dec 3 23:07:18 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] IPV6 Survey Message-ID: <8F844662-5006-4443-AF9A-FA6DE518727D@ucalgary.ca> Survey: who among thee is on native IPV6 in your practice/studio space. Ken Kenneth Fields, Ph.D. Professor Computer Music CEMC - China Electronic Music Center Central Conservatory of Music 43 BaoJia Street Beijing 100031 China, Email: ken@ccom.edu.cn http://syneme.ccom.edu.cn Tel: 13701188130 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/7c7284fb/attachment.html From rpacker at zakros.com Fri Dec 4 06:48:07 2015 From: rpacker at zakros.com (Randall Packer) Date: Fri Dec 4 06:48:19 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Jacktrip Course In-Reply-To: <41683A6C-74C3-4A30-95ED-DAFC4C6484CB@ucalgary.ca> References: <41683A6C-74C3-4A30-95ED-DAFC4C6484CB@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: Ken, this is great! I am going to go through the Kadenze course and see if we can introduce Jacktrip in the class at NTU. From: on behalf of Kenneth Fields Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 7:30 PM To: Subject: [Stremes-l] Jacktrip Course Great course on Jacktrip. (Kadenze.com). The third session of the course was just posted today. Thanks Chris! https://www.kadenze.com/courses/online-jamming-and-concert-technology/info This is a absolutely must do for all network musicians/artists/performers (period). There are a couple of subscription options/commitment-level for the course. Even if you?re a seasoned player, it?s a good confirmation of your normal practice, and you still might learn a couple of things. I did; there?s a bit on the history of jacktrip. Artsmesh is a front end Mac application for all this now, but it?s still good to know how to work with Jack audio and jacktrip from the terminal - if you get in a bind. Ken _______________________________________________ This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l To unsubscribe, see instructions at: http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/ec52feb7/attachment.html From rpacker at zakros.com Fri Dec 4 06:56:25 2015 From: rpacker at zakros.com (Randall Packer) Date: Fri Dec 4 06:56:38 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: References: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: Ethan, thanks for the illuminating description and illustrations of your techniques for online musical performance. I have a question about fluctuation in latency. I assume, the latency must change slightly over time. I can see how live musicians can compensate for this fluctuation, but how do you keep computer-generated sounds that are tied to a strict bpm in sync? Do you have a way within Max or some other means to compensate for changing latency? Randall From: Ethan Cayko Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 8:29 PM To: Randall Packer , Subject: Re: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming Hello Randall and all, As Ken mentioned earlier I am a graduate student in Music at the University of Calgary and I've just begun work on my thesis (pending its approval when I propose it next week). I am most interested in using the latency as a rhythmic device. For instance, 250 milliseconds is an eighth note at 120 bpm. If the network delay is 175 ms, just add 75ms of delay to the audio and boom, you can play at 120 bpm (or 180 bpm for some fun duple triple relationships). The tempo and rhythmic unit of your choosing can be adjusted by the user so you're not stuck playing at the tempo that the native network delay provides. The result of this is music that when played in unison at one node, sounds like a tight canon or stretto at the other node. An extension of this is in adding more nodes all related to each other by a rhythmic unit, but not the SAME rhythmic unit. For instance, if Node1 is related to Node2 by a quarter note and to Node3 by a dotted quarter note and Node2 is related to Node3 by an eighth note, it creates a rhythmic topology wherein music heard at each node is different and interrelated in fascinating ways. What this seemed to remind me of is the metrical ambiguity of the Ewe and of Steve Reich's music. Also, looping or repetitive phrases are important when playing in this context because it helps players to really sink into the tempo and internalize the pulse. I wrote some exercises and a piece for woodblocks last year as a sort of proof of concept that was performed between Calgary and Beijing (on a bit of a jittery day) and then again between Calgary and Bozeman, MT (this one went much smoother but then again it's only 500mi, that's easy!). I have attached a couple diagrams I made up last night to help illustrate how this all works. Let me know if it makes sense in relation to my description above. I should mention, this is done with a Max/MSP patch and the Pulse Loopback Measurement is a channel of audio that is set aside to constantly measure the native network delay. It sends a click to the opposite node, which is routed straight back and the time it took tells max how much the Transmission Delay is, it can then add the appropriate Compensatory delay to lock it in as an eighth note. Hopefully I didn't bore you all, I could go on for days about this stuff. Thanks for listening, Ethan On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 3:47 PM Randall Packer wrote: Ken, I love the idea of the network as a free and open and immediate space for musical improvisation. Of course I would say that the fluidity and creativity of your musical experience is possible because you have spent years refining the system, developing the techniques, and you clearly have solid collaborators. So bravo for making the network a quality social and artistic space for you and your colleagues. I am interested in knowing who else is on this list, and perhaps everyone can introduce themselves, and their ideas regarding networked performance. I suspect that everyone has a very different approach, objectives, and artistic rationale for engaging in performance in the networked third space. It would be fascinating to know how and why artists are reaching beyond the physical parameters of their local artistic and social space to create new work and experiences that dissolve geographical boundaries as well as engage new audiences. Best, Randall On 12/2/15, 9:30 PM, "Kenneth Fields" wrote: >I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary >yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities >of network music. > >We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. >There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. >however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, >we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since >a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. > >Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular >beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing >two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively >speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. > >We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. >So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic >mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, >it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing >simply and looking for emerging genre in this. > >The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. >No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. >When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. >Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. > >We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point >for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, >developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? >starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! > >And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. > >AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. > >Hmm, must be time. >Ken > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l >To unsubscribe, see instructions at: >http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > >E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca >Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l _______________________________________________ This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l To unsubscribe, see instructions at: http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/0d15bb17/attachment.html From ecayko at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 16:38:39 2015 From: ecayko at gmail.com (Ethan Cayko) Date: Fri Dec 4 16:38:55 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: References: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: Hey Randall, Ya that's a good question that, frankly, I have no good answer for. At the moment my focus is on human performance, partially for my own aesthetic reasons but also for exactly the reason you point out. If the network is a sort of time domain that is constantly in flux our human ability to listen and adapt fluidly works well. The rigidity of rhythms on a sequencer coupled with the difficulty of programming a computer to "listen" and adjust accordingly makes this pretty tricky. Although with that said, I am sure there are folks much more clever than I who could find an elegant solution. As far as the jitter, the patch does factor this in. It depends on the connection obviously but it rarely deviates more than 10ms on either side of the time max finds with the pulse measurement. The patch takes a running average of the past 10 or so pulses and excludes the occasional wildly erroneous values. That way the compensatory delay hovers around the right spot. However, if the network decides to get (and stay) sluggish, the tempo will still hold where the user wants. Ethan On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 6:56 AM Randall Packer wrote: > Ethan, thanks for the illuminating description and illustrations of your > techniques for online musical performance. I have a question about > fluctuation in latency. I assume, the latency must change slightly over > time. I can see how live musicians can compensate for this fluctuation, but > how do you keep computer-generated sounds that are tied to a strict bpm in > sync? Do you have a way within Max or some other means to compensate for > changing latency? > > Randall > > From: Ethan Cayko > Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 8:29 PM > To: Randall Packer , > Subject: Re: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming > > Hello Randall and all, > > As Ken mentioned earlier I am a graduate student in Music at the > University of Calgary and I've just begun work on my thesis (pending its > approval when I propose it next week). I am most interested in using the > latency as a rhythmic device. > > For instance, 250 milliseconds is an eighth note at 120 bpm. If the > network delay is 175 ms, just add 75ms of delay to the audio and boom, you > can play at 120 bpm (or 180 bpm for some fun duple triple relationships). > The tempo and rhythmic unit of your choosing can be adjusted by the user so > you're not stuck playing at the tempo that the native network delay > provides. The result of this is music that when played in unison at one > node, sounds like a tight canon or stretto at the other node. An extension > of this is in adding more nodes all related to each other by a rhythmic > unit, but not the SAME rhythmic unit. For instance, if Node1 is related to > Node2 by a quarter note and to Node3 by a dotted quarter note and Node2 is > related to Node3 by an eighth note, it creates a rhythmic topology wherein > music heard at each node is different and interrelated in fascinating ways. > > What this seemed to remind me of is the metrical ambiguity of the Ewe and > of Steve Reich's music. Also, looping or repetitive phrases are important > when playing in this context because it helps players to really sink into > the tempo and internalize the pulse. I wrote some exercises and a piece for > woodblocks last year as a sort of proof of concept that was performed > between Calgary and Beijing (on a bit of a jittery day) and then again > between Calgary and Bozeman, MT (this one went much smoother but then again > it's only 500mi, that's easy!). > > I have attached a couple diagrams I made up last night to help illustrate > how this all works. Let me know if it makes sense in relation to my > description above. I should mention, this is done with a Max/MSP patch and > the Pulse Loopback Measurement is a channel of audio that is set aside to > constantly measure the native network delay. It sends a click to the > opposite node, which is routed straight back and the time it took tells max > how much the Transmission Delay is, it can then add the appropriate > Compensatory delay to lock it in as an eighth note. > > Hopefully I didn't bore you all, I could go on for days about this stuff. > > Thanks for listening, > Ethan > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 3:47 PM Randall Packer wrote: > >> Ken, I love the idea of the network as a free and open and immediate >> space for musical improvisation. Of course I would say that the fluidity >> and creativity of your musical experience is possible because you have >> spent years refining the system, developing the techniques, and you clearly >> have solid collaborators. So bravo for making the network a quality social >> and artistic space for you and your colleagues. >> >> >> >> I am interested in knowing who else is on this list, and perhaps everyone >> can introduce themselves, and their ideas regarding networked performance. >> I suspect that everyone has a very different approach, objectives, and >> artistic rationale for engaging in performance in the networked third >> space. It would be fascinating to know how and why artists are reaching >> beyond the physical parameters of their local artistic and social space to >> create new work and experiences that dissolve geographical boundaries as >> well as engage new audiences. >> >> Best, Randall >> >> On 12/2/15, 9:30 PM, "Kenneth Fields" < >> stremes-l-bounces@mailman.ucalgary.ca on behalf of kfields@ucalgary.ca> >> wrote: >> >> >I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of >> calgary >> >yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic >> complexities/opportunities >> >of network music. >> > >> >We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our >> jacktrip connection. >> >There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. >> >however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the >> echo, >> >we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems >> reasonable since >> >a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air >> in both studios. >> > >> >Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our >> particular >> >beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are >> hearing >> >two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We >> are, relatively >> >speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. >> > >> >We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time >> with each of us. >> >So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a >> complex rhythmic >> >mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different >> pieces as a result, >> >it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. >> We are playing >> >simply and looking for emerging genre in this. >> > >> >The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to >> jam. >> >No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way >> to develop a project. >> >When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start >> broadcasting to youtube. >> >Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. >> > >> >We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that >> point >> >for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing >> bandwidth, >> >developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical >> space,? >> >starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! >> > >> >And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. >> > >> >AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. >> > >> >Hmm, must be time. >> >Ken >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l >> >To unsubscribe, see instructions at: >> >http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman >> > >> >E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> >Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l >> To unsubscribe, see instructions at: >> http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman >> >> E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca >> Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151204/017cd7f6/attachment.html From kfields at ucalgary.ca Fri Dec 4 20:52:49 2015 From: kfields at ucalgary.ca (Kenneth Fields) Date: Fri Dec 4 20:53:13 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming In-Reply-To: References: <88A54FBD-C8B6-4483-9864-78766E4B5E80@ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <91E2627B-6777-429F-8637-E6A373AF2E8D@ucalgary.ca> the latency actually does NOT vary much at all. Most commonly, it varies by less than 1ms when 10,000 km apart. The relatively low jitter (esp on ipv6), is rather disappointing at times when you want to make the jitter a ?feature.' For example, we had two loops going on both sides. we wanted the jitter to throw the loops out of phase. We waited, and waited. The loops stayed in sync. very disappointing :). Ken > On Dec 5, 2015, at 7:38 AM, Ethan Cayko wrote: > > Hey Randall, > > Ya that's a good question that, frankly, I have no good answer for. At the moment my focus is on human performance, partially for my own aesthetic reasons but also for exactly the reason you point out. If the network is a sort of time domain that is constantly in flux our human ability to listen and adapt fluidly works well. The rigidity of rhythms on a sequencer coupled with the difficulty of programming a computer to "listen" and adjust accordingly makes this pretty tricky. Although with that said, I am sure there are folks much more clever than I who could find an elegant solution. > > As far as the jitter, the patch does factor this in. It depends on the connection obviously but it rarely deviates more than 10ms on either side of the time max finds with the pulse measurement. The patch takes a running average of the past 10 or so pulses and excludes the occasional wildly erroneous values. That way the compensatory delay hovers around the right spot. However, if the network decides to get (and stay) sluggish, the tempo will still hold where the user wants. > > Ethan > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 6:56 AM Randall Packer > wrote: > Ethan, thanks for the illuminating description and illustrations of your techniques for online musical performance. I have a question about fluctuation in latency. I assume, the latency must change slightly over time. I can see how live musicians can compensate for this fluctuation, but how do you keep computer-generated sounds that are tied to a strict bpm in sync? Do you have a way within Max or some other means to compensate for changing latency? > > Randall > > From: Ethan Cayko > > Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 8:29 PM > To: Randall Packer >, > > Subject: Re: [Stremes-l] Simply Jamming > > Hello Randall and all, > > As Ken mentioned earlier I am a graduate student in Music at the University of Calgary and I've just begun work on my thesis (pending its approval when I propose it next week). I am most interested in using the latency as a rhythmic device. > > For instance, 250 milliseconds is an eighth note at 120 bpm. If the network delay is 175 ms, just add 75ms of delay to the audio and boom, you can play at 120 bpm (or 180 bpm for some fun duple triple relationships). The tempo and rhythmic unit of your choosing can be adjusted by the user so you're not stuck playing at the tempo that the native network delay provides. The result of this is music that when played in unison at one node, sounds like a tight canon or stretto at the other node. An extension of this is in adding more nodes all related to each other by a rhythmic unit, but not the SAME rhythmic unit. For instance, if Node1 is related to Node2 by a quarter note and to Node3 by a dotted quarter note and Node2 is related to Node3 by an eighth note, it creates a rhythmic topology wherein music heard at each node is different and interrelated in fascinating ways. > > What this seemed to remind me of is the metrical ambiguity of the Ewe and of Steve Reich's music. Also, looping or repetitive phrases are important when playing in this context because it helps players to really sink into the tempo and internalize the pulse. I wrote some exercises and a piece for woodblocks last year as a sort of proof of concept that was performed between Calgary and Beijing (on a bit of a jittery day) and then again between Calgary and Bozeman, MT (this one went much smoother but then again it's only 500mi, that's easy!). > > I have attached a couple diagrams I made up last night to help illustrate how this all works. Let me know if it makes sense in relation to my description above. I should mention, this is done with a Max/MSP patch and the Pulse Loopback Measurement is a channel of audio that is set aside to constantly measure the native network delay. It sends a click to the opposite node, which is routed straight back and the time it took tells max how much the Transmission Delay is, it can then add the appropriate Compensatory delay to lock it in as an eighth note. > > Hopefully I didn't bore you all, I could go on for days about this stuff. > > Thanks for listening, > Ethan > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 3:47 PM Randall Packer > wrote: > Ken, I love the idea of the network as a free and open and immediate space for musical improvisation. Of course I would say that the fluidity and creativity of your musical experience is possible because you have spent years refining the system, developing the techniques, and you clearly have solid collaborators. So bravo for making the network a quality social and artistic space for you and your colleagues. > > > > I am interested in knowing who else is on this list, and perhaps everyone can introduce themselves, and their ideas regarding networked performance. I suspect that everyone has a very different approach, objectives, and artistic rationale for engaging in performance in the networked third space. It would be fascinating to know how and why artists are reaching beyond the physical parameters of their local artistic and social space to create new work and experiences that dissolve geographical boundaries as well as engage new audiences. > > Best, Randall > > On 12/2/15, 9:30 PM, "Kenneth Fields" on behalf of kfields@ucalgary.ca > wrote: > > >I (in Beijing) had a great Jam with Ethan Cayko at the university of calgary > >yesterday. His master?s degree is concerned with rhythmic complexities/opportunities > >of network music. > > > >We tested the network for a bit, found some problems and ?tuned? our jacktrip connection. > >There was a 215ms delay, which we determined amounted to about 140bps. > >however, when I started jacktrip in loop mode and Ethan played with the echo, > >we found the actual beat (ricochet) to be around 127bpm. Seems reasonable since > >a bit more delay is introduced by the software, hardware and actual-air in both studios. > > > >Then we started jamming. It was a pleasure, just to sync into our particular > >beat profile based on our distance. The interesting part, is that we are hearing > >two different pieces - as I play off his beat and he plays off mine. We are, relatively > >speaking, mutually one beat offset from each other's history. > > > >We aim to add a third node, which will have its own unique delay time with each of us. > >So with the addition of just one node, ethan will be playing in a complex rhythmic > >mode and I will playing in another. While we will be hearing 3 different pieces as a result, > >it will still be a unique composite - given the coupling/triangulating. We are playing > >simply and looking for emerging genre in this. > > > >The main point in this for me, was that there was no intention but to jam. > >No theory, no crash rehearsal just before a performance. This is the way to develop a project. > >When the music gets going, we can just open up the session, and start broadcasting to youtube. > >Let the practice grow from a grounded, experiential reality. > > > >We both commented afterwards, that we had been trying to get to that point > >for a long time (years) - given all the complexities of (yes) organizing bandwidth, > >developing software, getting comfortable with the ?multi-chronotopical space,? > >starting courses and grad programs, writing grants, etc. Just play! > > > >And it coincides with the impetus to get this list going. > > > >AND I?m reading Bergson?s Creative Mind (intuition/time)?. > > > >Hmm, must be time. > >Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l > >To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > >http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > > >E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > >Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l > To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l > To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151205/9aed274c/attachment.html From roger at eartrumpet.org Tue Dec 15 14:34:53 2015 From: roger at eartrumpet.org (Roger Mills) Date: Tue Dec 15 14:35:07 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] NMP Literature Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I was wondering what books you have read, or know about, that specifically focus on networked music performance or telematic music / sound making in general ? This can be either from technological, musical or phenomenological perspectives but not from journal articles / special issues, book chapters or papers. I?m looking for some interesting xmas reading. Thanks and best wishes for the new year ! Roger -- Roger Mills http://www.eartrumpet.org http://ethernetorchestra.net http://nadasound.wordpress.com "Knowledge is only rumour until it is in the muscle" - Asaro Mudmen, Papua New Guinea. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/pipermail/stremes-l/attachments/20151216/dad42fdb/attachment.html From kfields at ucalgary.ca Tue Dec 15 18:56:59 2015 From: kfields at ucalgary.ca (Kenneth Fields) Date: Tue Dec 15 18:57:15 2015 Subject: [Stremes-l] NMP Literature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FEAC75A-4C66-46D3-9FDA-8CCB0CB9C7DD@ucalgary.ca> Recent readings: Kahn, Earth Sound Earth Signal. Holzmann, Early history of data networks Larsen, Networks Vitale, Networkologies Galloway, Protocol Here?s the Mendeley bibliography on Network Music: https://www.mendeley.com/groups/549251/network-music/papers/ Please contribute and help to keep this updated. Actually, Bergson interests me now as regards time, space, intuition, experience. Regarding ?the book,? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Networked_book http://www.futureofthebook.org/ http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/30/future-books-publishing-tech-media_cz_bv_books06_1201network.html http://networkedbook.org/ http://www.futureofthebook.org/gamertheory/?page_id=231 Our community should be looking at similar solutions. Many of us have been approached to publish in traditional formats, but I find that the enthusiasm to do a normal book project in the age of the commodification of knowledge is weak. http://www.ashgate.com/isbn/9780754676904 re: the controversial state of affairs regarding academic publishing and knowledge as commodity; reflected for example, in the recent sale of Ashgate Publishing itself to Informa: http://www.informa.com/about-us/informa-at-a-glance/ At least, why not hone a wikibook: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kenneth1ny/Books/Network_Music However, I would support a decentralized approach as appropriate: modular, distributed, LIVE. http://networkcultures.org/networktheory/ How about it? Ken > On Dec 16, 2015, at 5:34 AM, Roger Mills wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I was wondering what books you have read, or know about, that specifically focus on networked music performance or telematic music / sound making in general ? > > This can be either from technological, musical or phenomenological perspectives but not from journal articles / special issues, book chapters or papers. > > I?m looking for some interesting xmas reading. > > Thanks and best wishes for the new year ! > > Roger > > -- > Roger Mills > > http://www.eartrumpet.org > http://ethernetorchestra.net > http://nadasound.wordpress.com > > "Knowledge is only rumour until it is in the muscle" - Asaro Mudmen, Papua New Guinea. > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent to all subscribers of stremes-l > To unsubscribe, see instructions at: > http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/email/mailman > > E-mail: stremes-l@mailman.ucalgary.ca > Homepage: http://mailman.ucalgary.ca/mailman/listinfo/stremes-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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